As 180 Size mini quads are getting more and more popular, many people ask what is the best motor for this type of small quadcopters that runs on 4 inch props.
Some of the links on this page are affiliate links. I receive a commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase after clicking on one of these affiliate links. This helps support the free content for the community on this website. Please read our Affiliate Link Policy for more information.
Here we have the thrust data from some motor tests I did recently. The most commonly used mini quad motors on the 180’s are 1306 3100KV, 1806 2300KV and 2204 2300KV motors. I have also seen people using Cobra 2204 1960KV with good result, so I have done the test on them with 4 inch props as well.
This is my motor testing setup.
Sunnysky 1306 3100KV
Table of Contents
3S 12V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
257
7.6
94.2
2.7
Gemfan 4045 Carbon
286
7.8
96.7
3.0
HQ4045 Bullnose
285
13.5
167.4
1.7
Gemfan 5030
420
11.5
142.6
2.9
4S 16V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
367
10.8
172.8
2.1
Gemfan 4045 Carbon
382
10.8
172.8
2.2
HQ4045 Bullnose
363
16.1
257.6
1.4
Gemfan 5030
540
14.26
228.2
2.4
EMAX 1806 2300KV
3S 12V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
216
4.7
58.3
3.7
HQ4045 Bullnose
300
9.1
112.8
2.7
Gemfan 5030
370
7.2
89.3
4.1
4S 16V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
313
6.6
105.6
3.0
HQ4045 Bullnose
414
12.8
204.8
2.0
Gemfan 5030
520
10.2
163.2
3.2
Cobra 2204 2300KV
3S 12V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
270
4.9
58.8
4.6
Gemfan 4045 Carbon
252
4.8
57.6
4.4
HQ4045 Bullnose
355
9.6
115.2
3.1
Gemfan 5030
404
7.5
90.0
4.5
4S 16V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
351
6.7
107.2
3.3
Gemfan 4045 Carbon
345
6.7
107.2
3.2
HQ4045 Bullnose
515
13.7
219.2
2.3
Gemfan 5030
596
11.2
179.2
3.3
Cobra 2204 1960KV
3S 12V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
166
3.4
40.8
4.1
HQ4045 Bullnose
294
7.2
86.4
3.4
Gemfan 5030
370
6.0
72.0
5.1
4S 16V
Props
Peak Thrust – g
Peak Current – A
Max Power – W
Efficiency – g/W
Gemfan 4045 ABS
281
5.7
91.2
3.1
HQ4045 Bullnose
466
10.7
171.2
2.7
Gemfan 5030
533
8.8
140.8
3.8
For more Cobra 2204 1960KV and 2300KV motor thrust data on other propellers, check out this post.
Hi, Always nice to read on your site. I am having a Diatone Tyrant 180 frame with GoolRC 1806 2300KV that’s under-powered with 3S. Am I totaly out of line, if I consider the following Primary Emax RSII 2206 2300KV and 30A BLheli ESC’s with 6S 1050mAh and 3-blade 4045 Secondary Emax RSII 2206 1900KV and 30A BLheli ESC’s with 6S 1050mAh and 3-blade 4045? Third is to target 4S Emax RSII 2206 2300KV and 20A BLheli ESC’s with 4S 1000mAh and 3-blade 4045?
Hi Oscar, I recently crashed my vortex 150 and am upgrading it to a 180. What motors would you suggest running 4s with stock 16a esc. I’m open to 24a esc. Vortex is using xnova 1407 3500 kv with bi blade hq props. I have all the parts but the motors. I want it to be wicked fast?
Quattuor v2 frame, cobra motors 1407 4100kv, KK or HQ 4045×2 props, hglrc 28a stack with included 2.4gram 350mw vtx, caddx sdr1 1200tvl fpv cam. Titanium screes throughout. My auw without lipo is 126grams. Youd be hard pressed to make a lighter or faster 4 inch than that imo. Those cobra motors produce close to 900grams static thrust on the bench with 4s and 4045×2 props. 1407 motors are the sweet spot with this size quad.
i built a 160 diatone tyrant with dys se1806 2700kv and 16 amp esc 3045bn tri blades DAL ..i tryed it out with a 35c 3s 1500mah..it seems to not have a hole lot of recovery power.. flips are scary. bigger esc???.20 amp high kv esc?? what i dont get is i just built a 180 tyrant w/ 2800kv red bottoms 20esc dys V1. same batery 5045bn tri dal..even thought the battery dies fast the 3-4 minutes are a blast..thing rips…so what the deal with my 160?
i think it’s just your motors has not enough KV, for 3″ props i think it’s more common to run 4000KV motors nowadays to get decent power. By increase ESC current rating isn’t going to increase your quad’s power.
i am back to my 160..need to make it fly..so i forgot to say that i did have 1306 4000 dys motors on there before and it had no power..so what if i go with dys v2 high kv 20amp esc, and dys 1306 4000 kv, i think the little bee 16 amps just wont let any current threw..what do you think..i dont want to run around wasteing any more money..lol..
Hi Oscar, I have just built a 180 Tweaker using 1806 2700kv motors would i be ok to use 1000 mAh 65c packs, using DAL TJ 4045 props or should buy some 3S 1300mAh packs and use HQ 4x4x3G props, what would you sujest looking for more flight time than fast race setup as its my first build.
So, ultimately – what would be a better option on 4S – 2204 2300kv with BN, 1306 with normal 4045, or maybe 2204 1960kv with BN? Is it OK for 2204 2300kV motors to run a 4″ BN prop?
since I written that post, there more more and more options for quadcopters that runs 4″ props… like those 2205/2206 2600KV-2800KV motors… I reviewed a couple recently: Dragon Fly 2206 2800KV motor Emax RS2205 2600KV They are the go-to motors now for 4″ quads.
Play2win70 (RCG name) Brian (real name)7th January 2016 - 5:22 pm
I”m running Sunnysky 1306 3100kv motors with the gemfan 4045’s but the propellers do not sit correctly on the shaft. There is a lot of play in them. The propellers do no come with an insert to center the propeller on the shaft. How do you overcome this issue?
> My quote (was typing text this night / early morning): RCX motors seem to be balanced ……BUT those China rules and customer support which they are talking in forums about gets me away.
Actually this in the night written sentence was meant in a different way.
RCXHobby.com is the vendor of the RCX motors which I have seen pictures from which seem to be dynamically motion balanced in factory as well as?!?
The 2nd part I was refering to is not the vendor RCXHobby itself but one China dealer M*R*M*** which has those weird customer / warranty rules on homepage, provides no address and it is the company which they talk about on forums.
Both companies (RCX, M*R*M***) seem to be created in 2008 according to their homepages. I have no clue if they are the same China company or different. Do they relate to each other? RCX H1306 motors are not very much listed on different RCXHobby.com dealers??!??
Just to get it right in your comments as I am really not interested to bash against any company.
I was just thinking what 1306 / 3100kv motor would be best as not all forum feedback seem to be the best for all China motors according to improper balancing, defects, warranty claims???
On the other side Armattan seems to resale (DYS??) motors, one quad UK stores sells DYS directly, so they can not be THAT bad? :-)
I had the Blade 200QX with 2s 3100kv motor. Have been using 2s 500mah lipos (have 10). Flytime about 4 minutes.
Got the Armattan morphite 180 frame. Now the 200QX ESC died because of motor stutter.
I have no idea if it is best to try DYS 3100kv with those 2s 500mah on that frame as 1000/1300/1500mah lipos may be supported (vs 200qx 850-950mah).
Local dealer has more expensive Juki motors of 2300kv (3s…).
DYS has 2x motor set and are cheaper.
RCX motors seem to be balanced but those China rules and customer support which they are talking in forums about gets me away.
If I go the 3100kv way the end result may be that I have to drop the V120d02s 2s 500mah lipos because of Morphite frame weight and reduced flight time. The microheli 200qx frame may have already reduced it a little bit too?! (IMHO ~0,5-1min less flight time).
I could not make the decision either to go for 2s 1000-1500mah on 3100kv which also supports 3s or to go for 2300kv on 3s or 4s with at least 1000mah.
I read about 1350mah about a lipo size which may be acceptable on 3s for weight on Morphite 180.
So the question: Which way should I go?
The local park is limited, has electric power tower thru the field in the middle and free room is a bit limited. Was fine for 130x, 200qx, Invertix 400. So a 180 quad speed racer is probably not that thing which I am looking for…200qx was fast enough.
I fear to get DYS motors which do not work, are unbalanced…just may get me into trouble. But motor price for Juki or Tmotors are out of scope really.
So what are the more quality motors 3100kv vs 2300kv?
I really want the option for 2s to 3s and I do not want to be fixed pinned to 1s-2s like Tmotors eithers. 3s++ would be OK too (drawback new lipos).
What route would you guys take? Try and error 2s with 3100kv, 3s, 3s + 2300kv vs 4s? Step by step?
Package from UK to DE is not really cheap and may be more expensive than some “good“ motors. Only armattan site has 5$ package but +19% Vat Gets added outside EU.
I would have loved to share V120d02s lipos with morphite 180 as I get away from 200qx. Those eflite motors can not be screwed onto the frame arms so windings easily brake.
i would recommend going 4S 1000mah on your 1306 3100kv :) I am also running that setup at the moment… It’s a lot more fun flying on 4S i know because I have tried 2S/3S and 4S :) but don’t use bullnose props on that setup, it’s too much for your motors :)
I found out current / ratings are to be considered as well as: Comparing my 2s 500mah (25C) vs new 2x 1000-1350 vs new 3s 1000mah or new 4s 1000mah lipos I would also have to check max ratings to do the max ampere rate calculation. The more mah the better even on lower C ratings. I can remember e.g that the Hype Miss America motor current was way over 12,5A so the 2s lipo broke down and telemetry alarm showed voltage 4,10V/cell.
2s 500mah x 25 C = max 12,5A current (WhiteLine lipos I have lying around) 2s 500mah x 45 C = max 22,5A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos for reusing on V120d02s too) 2s 1000mah x 45C = max 45A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos) 2s 1350mah x 45C = max 61A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos) 3s 1000mah x 45C = max 45A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos)
The DYS 3100kv motor is rated for continuous 7,8A current and the DYS 2300kv motor is rated for 7,6A current too.
How would you calculate the total current for 4 motors to see if a lipo can do it? The 200QX motors where of course not powered with max 8A x 4 motors = 32A max current (each ESC mosfet can do no more than 8A). 500mah 25C lipos where working fine on the 200QX.
I guess I would really have to test those old / available 25C 500mah lipos and see if it is enough power for Armattan frame and different motor/ESC set than Blade 200QX electronics.
There is a newer 1806 2700kv motor (V1 with M2, V2 with M3) available: facebook.com/DetroitMultirotor/posts/916425965121404:0 helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=714323
Hadn’t viewed the 2700kv version (vs 3100kv vs 2300kv) when writing above comments.
Hi Oscar, Thanks, again, for your work. It’s really helpful (to say the least) for a beginner like me. So according to your test, the 1306 with 4045 Gemfan is the real deal. Interesting… I’ve a few question: forgive me if they are naive. 1) 1306 are a even better deal since they save weight. Your test doesn’t care about the motor weight isn’t it? 2) how come so moch people are building 180 with 2204 motors these days? 3) I’ve a 150 with 3 inches gemfan, it’s fun but not that powerful. Is it because of the props or because it’s Eachine motors?
1) not it doesn’t. But you can take that into account when considering motors on your own. 2) because they can work much better on 4S, and with 4045 bullnose even 4045 triblades. Ultimately they are much more powerful than 1306. 3) mainly due to the prop size i think.
Hi Oscar, would 2206 T-Motors be too much for a 180 quad? My 250 quad is in need of a new pdb so i was thinking of putting my 2206’s onto my 170 with 20A esc’s and the 4045 props. My thoughts were that the 2206 might be too powerful for the 170?
i guess you need to work out if the additional gain in thrust is worth the extra weight… and how efficient they are with 4045 props… I haven’t used those motors so cannot comment..
I was wondering if you or anyone else has any thrust test data for Cobra 2206/2100kv on 4″ props? I can’t seem to find any good information on these motors specifically using 4″ props.
Excellent thrust test information. I’m noticing those EMAX 1806 motors are very weak! Confirmed by a RCGroups guy who was complaining about his 180 being too sluggish. I tested DYS and AirBot MicroTitan 1806-2300 motors and they performed very close to Cobra 2204-2300 motors. Also tested EMAX 1804-2480 and it had disappointing performance, so the 1806 could possibly share components with the 1804, namely stator winding and wire. EMAX makes really good motors, but their 1804/6 are weak.
Did you actually compare a DYS 1806/2300kV motor with a cobra 2204 2300kv on 4045BN probs? I think THAT would be very interesting. I assume that the additional torque of a 2204 motor isnt’t really an advantage unless you use props bigger than 4″.
Hi Oscar, Thanks for the hard work Oscar. I’ve been following your blog for a while, and your work has improved tremendously. Cool to see your project evolving. Keep it up.
Thx Oscar, that is usefull. Just a little precision, 5in props will touch themself on a 180, it should start with a 190, but, little details here. Also, don’t know if it’s the same with “mini-mini under 200 brushless build”, but with my micro printed frames I tested props to props (2mm distance) on a 80mm frame, against more decent distance in-between props (half props and more) on a standard micro size 120mm, and even if the frame 120 was heavier, a “half props lenght and more distance” in between props fly way better than a light frame that close the props too much. I’m building actually an X acro frame build 200mm DYS 1306-3100, with 3S, 20a esc, will test in flight HQ5045 (props to props) against 4045.
It looks like 1306 motors + GF 4045 are the sweet spot for quads in this class.
I used your thrust numbers to calculate the thrust-to-weight ratio on a 180 running 2204 2300kv motors + HQ BN props with a larger 4S 1300 mAh pack, and the ratio is actually worse than running the smaller 1306s + GF4045 with an 850 mAh pack. There’s a law of diminishing returns here with the added weight of larger motors and the requisite larger batteries…
yes 1306 on 4S is pretty nice :) i have a friend running this setup and she’s FAST! :) anyway i want to try 2204 2300 on this size see how they peroform :)
It should be plenty fast on 2204-2300 but you’ll need 4045BN with a 1300-4S-45C minimum I think. I run a 65C and it’s just about right. 1806-2300’s are also a viable option, they can handle 4045BN props on 4S but the advantages of 2204’s are that they’re much stronger in terms of crash survival, their 3mm shafts resist bending much better than the 2mm shafts of the 1806’s -except the Airbot MicroTitan 1806s and the 3mm hollow shaft which I’m assuming should be stronger than standard 2mm shafts. 1806’s & 2204’s are actually very close in weight. Some “news” about 4″ props: it looks like GemFan will be getting into the 4″ BN segment. I asked GemFan over in RCG and said they’re working on their 4045BN version. Hopefully it delivers about same thrust as HQ’s but more efficiently, so everyone head over to GFan’s RCG blog and tell them that indeed we would like to see their 4045BN become available. Typically GFan props perform well and they’re a much cheaper option to HQ’s rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2495246&page=2#post32741251 rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2456650
Yes that’s a very good point about motor shaft :) If Gemfan can produce 4045BN, it would be a very good news, personally i prefer their 5045BN over HQ due to cheaper price and similar performance :)
I cut down HQ 6×4.5×3 to 4″ and put that on Shendrones Tweaker (180mm quad) with HK beatup multistar elite 2204/2300kv motors and run it w/ Lumenier 4s 60c. Seems pretty fast to me (and I’m not a good pilot by any stretch):
vimeo.com/138373763
Also got GoPro Hero4 Silver on it, so this is not the ‘fastest’ it can go. :) Loving the sound tho.
Are you sure of your measurements? You’re getting more thrust on 2300KV motor than 3100KV with same battery & same propeller (HQ4045 Bullnose, 3S 12V)?
Yep – 1306-3100kv doesn’t have enough grunt – torque to drive that heavy propeller. BN props also create a lot drag-turbulence that requires power to be overcome. the 3100kv doesn’t mean the motor will reach those high RPM with all props. Most hobby motors don’t reach their theoretical rpm’s when loaded with props. Here’s my test with similar results to Oscar’s youtu.be/NrSac4hHOGQ?t=3m11s
Great blog! lots of useful info for people to make good selection of components for their 180 rigs :)
We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. By clicking “Accept All”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Click "Cookie Settings" to decline these cookies, make more detailed choices, or learn more.
This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience.
Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously.
Cookie
Duration
Description
cookielawinfo-checkbox-analytics
11 months
This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-functional
11 months
The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-necessary
11 months
This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-others
11 months
This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other.
cookielawinfo-checkbox-performance
11 months
This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance".
viewed_cookie_policy
11 months
The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. It does not store any personal data.
Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features.
Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors.
Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc.
Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads.
42 comments
Hi,
Always nice to read on your site.
I am having a Diatone Tyrant 180 frame with GoolRC 1806 2300KV that’s under-powered with 3S.
Am I totaly out of line, if I consider the following
Primary
Emax RSII 2206 2300KV and 30A BLheli ESC’s with 6S 1050mAh and 3-blade 4045
Secondary
Emax RSII 2206 1900KV and 30A BLheli ESC’s with 6S 1050mAh and 3-blade 4045?
Third is to target 4S
Emax RSII 2206 2300KV and 20A BLheli ESC’s with 4S 1000mAh and 3-blade 4045?
Thanks
BR
Janne
I decided to go for Emax RS2205 2600KV with 30A ESC’s and 4S.
Hi Oscar,
I recently crashed my vortex 150 and am upgrading it to a 180. What motors would you suggest running 4s with stock 16a esc.
I’m open to 24a esc.
Vortex is using xnova 1407 3500 kv with bi blade hq props.
I have all the parts but the motors.
I want it to be wicked fast?
If you were to redo this article today. What would the best motor at the moment be for a 4′ setup running 4s. While trying to be as light as possible.
Quattuor v2 frame, cobra motors 1407 4100kv, KK or HQ 4045×2 props, hglrc 28a stack with included 2.4gram 350mw vtx, caddx sdr1 1200tvl fpv cam. Titanium screes throughout. My auw without lipo is 126grams. Youd be hard pressed to make a lighter or faster 4 inch than that imo. Those cobra motors produce close to 900grams static thrust on the bench with 4s and 4045×2 props. 1407 motors are the sweet spot with this size quad.
i built a 160 diatone tyrant with dys se1806 2700kv and 16 amp esc 3045bn tri blades DAL ..i tryed it out with a 35c 3s 1500mah..it seems to not have a hole lot of recovery power.. flips are scary. bigger esc???.20 amp high kv esc?? what i dont get is i just built a 180 tyrant w/ 2800kv red bottoms 20esc dys V1. same batery 5045bn tri dal..even thought the battery dies fast the 3-4 minutes are a blast..thing rips…so what the deal with my 160?
“even though the battery dies fast”
i think it’s just your motors has not enough KV, for 3″ props i think it’s more common to run 4000KV motors nowadays to get decent power. By increase ESC current rating isn’t going to increase your quad’s power.
i am back to my 160..need to make it fly..so i forgot to say that i did have 1306 4000 dys motors on there before and it had no power..so what if i go with dys v2 high kv 20amp esc, and dys 1306 4000 kv, i think the little bee 16 amps just wont let any current threw..what do you think..i dont want to run around wasteing any more money..lol..
YOU ARE UNDERPOWERED WITH THE 3″ PROPS. IF YOU CANT RUN 4″ THEN CUT DOWN SOME 4″ PROPS.
Hi Oscar,
I have just built a 180 Tweaker using 1806 2700kv motors would i be ok to use 1000 mAh 65c packs, using DAL TJ 4045 props
or should buy some 3S 1300mAh packs and use HQ 4x4x3G props, what would you sujest looking for more flight time than fast race setup as its my first build.
I have never used 1806 2700kv… but i reckon it will draw quite a bit of current with triblades…
I would probably stick with 4S with bi-blades 4045…
Hi Oscar, thanks for this awesome test.
So, ultimately – what would be a better option on 4S – 2204 2300kv with BN, 1306 with normal 4045, or maybe 2204 1960kv with BN?
Is it OK for 2204 2300kV motors to run a 4″ BN prop?
since I written that post, there more more and more options for quadcopters that runs 4″ props… like those 2205/2206 2600KV-2800KV motors…
I reviewed a couple recently:
Dragon Fly 2206 2800KV motor
Emax RS2205 2600KV
They are the go-to motors now for 4″ quads.
I”m running Sunnysky 1306 3100kv motors with the gemfan 4045’s but the propellers do not sit correctly on the shaft. There is a lot of play in them. The propellers do no come with an insert to center the propeller on the shaft. How do you overcome this issue?
> My quote (was typing text this night / early morning): RCX motors seem to be balanced ……BUT those China rules and customer support which they are talking in forums about gets me away.
Actually this in the night written sentence was meant in a different way.
RCXHobby.com is the vendor of the RCX motors which I have seen pictures from which seem to be dynamically motion balanced in factory as well as?!?
The 2nd part I was refering to is not the vendor RCXHobby itself but one China dealer M*R*M*** which has those weird customer / warranty rules on homepage, provides no address and it is the company which they talk about on forums.
Both companies (RCX, M*R*M***) seem to be created in 2008 according to their homepages.
I have no clue if they are the same China company or different. Do they relate to each other?
RCX H1306 motors are not very much listed on different RCXHobby.com dealers??!??
Just to get it right in your comments as I am really not interested to bash against any company.
I was just thinking what 1306 / 3100kv motor would be best as not all forum feedback seem to be the best for all China motors according to improper balancing, defects, warranty claims???
On the other side Armattan seems to resale (DYS??) motors, one quad UK stores sells DYS directly, so they can not be THAT bad? :-)
Greetings
Thomas
Hi Oscar,
Very cool blog. Frame and motor compares rock!
I had the Blade 200QX with 2s 3100kv motor.
Have been using 2s 500mah lipos (have 10).
Flytime about 4 minutes.
Got the Armattan morphite 180 frame.
Now the 200QX ESC died because of motor stutter.
I have no idea if it is best to try DYS 3100kv with those 2s 500mah on that frame as 1000/1300/1500mah lipos may be supported (vs 200qx 850-950mah).
Local dealer has more expensive Juki motors of 2300kv (3s…).
DYS has 2x motor set and are cheaper.
RCX motors seem to be balanced but those China rules and customer support which they are talking in forums about gets me away.
If I go the 3100kv way the end result may be that I have to drop the V120d02s 2s 500mah lipos because of Morphite frame weight and reduced flight time.
The microheli 200qx frame may have already reduced it a little bit too?! (IMHO ~0,5-1min less flight time).
I could not make the decision either to go for 2s 1000-1500mah on 3100kv which also supports 3s or to go for 2300kv on 3s or 4s with at least 1000mah.
I read about 1350mah about a lipo size which may be acceptable on 3s for weight on Morphite 180.
So the question: Which way should I go?
The local park is limited, has electric power tower thru the field in the middle and free room is a bit limited.
Was fine for 130x, 200qx, Invertix 400.
So a 180 quad speed racer is probably not that thing which I am looking for…200qx was fast enough.
I fear to get DYS motors which do not work, are unbalanced…just may get me into trouble.
But motor price for Juki or Tmotors are out of scope really.
So what are the more quality motors 3100kv vs 2300kv?
I really want the option for 2s to 3s and I do not want to be fixed pinned to 1s-2s like Tmotors eithers.
3s++ would be OK too (drawback new lipos).
What route would you guys take? Try and error 2s with 3100kv, 3s, 3s + 2300kv vs 4s? Step by step?
Package from UK to DE is not really cheap and may be more expensive than some “good“ motors.
Only armattan site has 5$ package but +19% Vat
Gets added outside EU.
I would have loved to share V120d02s lipos with morphite 180 as I get away from 200qx.
Those eflite motors can not be screwed onto the frame arms so windings easily brake.
Greetings from Germany
Thomas
i would recommend going 4S 1000mah on your 1306 3100kv :) I am also running that setup at the moment…
It’s a lot more fun flying on 4S i know because I have tried 2S/3S and 4S :)
but don’t use bullnose props on that setup, it’s too much for your motors :)
Hi Oscar,
Thanks for your 4s reply :-)
I found out current / ratings are to be considered as well as:
Comparing my 2s 500mah (25C) vs new 2x 1000-1350 vs new 3s 1000mah or new 4s 1000mah lipos I would also have to check max ratings to do the max ampere rate calculation. The more mah the better even on lower C ratings.
I can remember e.g that the Hype Miss America motor current was way over 12,5A so the 2s lipo broke down and telemetry alarm showed voltage 4,10V/cell.
2s 500mah x 25 C = max 12,5A current (WhiteLine lipos I have lying around)
2s 500mah x 45 C = max 22,5A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos for reusing on V120d02s too)
2s 1000mah x 45C = max 45A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos)
2s 1350mah x 45C = max 61A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos)
3s 1000mah x 45C = max 45A current (45C would be new Yuki Brainergy lipos)
The DYS 3100kv motor is rated for continuous 7,8A current and the DYS 2300kv motor is rated for 7,6A current too.
How would you calculate the total current for 4 motors to see if a lipo can do it?
The 200QX motors where of course not powered with max 8A x 4 motors = 32A max current (each ESC mosfet can do no more than 8A). 500mah 25C lipos where working fine on the 200QX.
I guess I would really have to test those old / available 25C 500mah lipos and see if it is enough power for Armattan frame and different motor/ESC set than Blade 200QX electronics.
Greetings
Thomas
There is a newer 1806 2700kv motor (V1 with M2, V2 with M3) available:
facebook.com/DetroitMultirotor/posts/916425965121404:0
helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=714323
Hadn’t viewed the 2700kv version (vs 3100kv vs 2300kv) when writing above comments.
Thomas
Hi Oscar,
Thanks, again, for your work.
It’s really helpful (to say the least) for a beginner like me.
So according to your test, the 1306 with 4045 Gemfan is the real deal.
Interesting…
I’ve a few question: forgive me if they are naive.
1) 1306 are a even better deal since they save weight. Your test doesn’t care about the motor weight isn’t it?
2) how come so moch people are building 180 with 2204 motors these days?
3) I’ve a 150 with 3 inches gemfan, it’s fun but not that powerful. Is it because of the props or because it’s Eachine motors?
Anyways, I’m a big fan of your blog,
Go on :)
1) not it doesn’t. But you can take that into account when considering motors on your own.
2) because they can work much better on 4S, and with 4045 bullnose even 4045 triblades. Ultimately they are much more powerful than 1306.
3) mainly due to the prop size i think.
Hi Oscar, would 2206 T-Motors be too much for a 180 quad?
My 250 quad is in need of a new pdb so i was thinking of putting my 2206’s onto my 170
with 20A esc’s and the 4045 props. My thoughts were that the 2206 might be too powerful for the 170?
i guess you need to work out if the additional gain in thrust is worth the extra weight… and how efficient they are with 4045 props… I haven’t used those motors so cannot comment..
Hi Oscar,
I was wondering if you or anyone else has any thrust test data for Cobra 2206/2100kv on 4″ props? I can’t seem to find any good information on these motors specifically using 4″ props.
Excellent thrust test information.
I’m noticing those EMAX 1806 motors are very weak! Confirmed by a RCGroups guy who was complaining about his 180 being too sluggish. I tested DYS and AirBot MicroTitan 1806-2300 motors and they performed very close to Cobra 2204-2300 motors. Also tested EMAX 1804-2480 and it had disappointing performance, so the 1806 could possibly share components with the 1804, namely stator winding and wire. EMAX makes really good motors, but their 1804/6 are weak.
Did you actually compare a DYS 1806/2300kV motor with a cobra 2204 2300kv on 4045BN probs? I think THAT would be very interesting. I assume that the additional torque of a 2204 motor isnt’t really an advantage unless you use props bigger than 4″.
Hi Oscar,
Thanks for the hard work Oscar. I’ve been following your blog for a while, and your work has improved tremendously. Cool to see your project evolving. Keep it up.
thanks Rick for the kind words :)
Thx Oscar, that is usefull.
Just a little precision, 5in props will touch themself on a 180, it should start with a 190, but, little details here.
Also, don’t know if it’s the same with “mini-mini under 200 brushless build”, but with my micro printed frames I tested props to props (2mm distance) on a 80mm frame, against more decent distance in-between props (half props and more) on a standard micro size 120mm, and even if the frame 120 was heavier, a “half props lenght and more distance” in between props fly way better than a light frame that close the props too much. I’m building actually an X acro frame build 200mm DYS 1306-3100, with 3S, 20a esc, will test in flight HQ5045 (props to props) against 4045.
Hi Oscar
Jocelyn, you could “stack” the motors and have the props turn on different planes, as long as they clear the center part.
Regards,
Steven.
Would have liked to see the 150g thrust numbers for each setup.
thanks man ! you saved me sh!t load of testing time and money.
Hi Oscar,
It looks like 1306 motors + GF 4045 are the sweet spot for quads in this class.
I used your thrust numbers to calculate the thrust-to-weight ratio on a 180 running 2204 2300kv motors + HQ BN props with a larger 4S 1300 mAh pack, and the ratio is actually worse than running the smaller 1306s + GF4045 with an 850 mAh pack. There’s a law of diminishing returns here with the added weight of larger motors and the requisite larger batteries…
yes 1306 on 4S is pretty nice :) i have a friend running this setup and she’s FAST! :)
anyway i want to try 2204 2300 on this size see how they peroform :)
It should be plenty fast on 2204-2300 but you’ll need 4045BN with a 1300-4S-45C minimum I think. I run a 65C and it’s just about right.
1806-2300’s are also a viable option, they can handle 4045BN props on 4S but the advantages of 2204’s are that they’re much stronger in terms of crash survival, their 3mm shafts resist bending much better than the 2mm shafts of the 1806’s -except the Airbot MicroTitan 1806s and the 3mm hollow shaft which I’m assuming should be stronger than standard 2mm shafts. 1806’s & 2204’s are actually very close in weight.
Some “news” about 4″ props: it looks like GemFan will be getting into the 4″ BN segment. I asked GemFan over in RCG and said they’re working on their 4045BN version. Hopefully it delivers about same thrust as HQ’s but more efficiently, so everyone head over to GFan’s RCG blog and tell them that indeed we would like to see their 4045BN become available. Typically GFan props perform well and they’re a much cheaper option to HQ’s
rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2495246&page=2#post32741251
rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2456650
Yes that’s a very good point about motor shaft :)
If Gemfan can produce 4045BN, it would be a very good news, personally i prefer their 5045BN over HQ due to cheaper price and similar performance :)
I cut down HQ 6×4.5×3 to 4″ and put that on Shendrones Tweaker (180mm quad) with HK beatup multistar elite 2204/2300kv motors and run it w/ Lumenier 4s 60c. Seems pretty fast to me (and I’m not a good pilot by any stretch):
vimeo.com/138373763
Also got GoPro Hero4 Silver on it, so this is not the ‘fastest’ it can go. :) Loving the sound tho.
awesome :) have you done any thrust testing with this motor?
Hi Oscar
Are you sure of your measurements? You’re getting more thrust on 2300KV motor than 3100KV with same battery & same propeller (HQ4045 Bullnose, 3S 12V)?
Sunnysky 1306 3100kv 285gr
Cobra 2204 2300KV 355gr ??
yes, pretty sure. The 1306 just hasn’t got enough torque to turn that prop… I could hear the RPM was a lot lower than GF4045…
Yep – 1306-3100kv doesn’t have enough grunt – torque to drive that heavy propeller.
BN props also create a lot drag-turbulence that requires power to be overcome.
the 3100kv doesn’t mean the motor will reach those high RPM with all props. Most hobby motors don’t reach their theoretical rpm’s when loaded with props. Here’s my test with similar results to Oscar’s
youtu.be/NrSac4hHOGQ?t=3m11s
Great blog! lots of useful info for people to make good selection of components for their 180 rigs :)